This isn't funny anymore. 

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 01/20/2018 at 10:29 • Filed to: None

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I know that government shutdowns are relatively common in the US, after all, that’s how your government is meant to work.

But using a shutdown as a political tool, geez, it seems to me like something that will become more and more common with time. Its been 42 years since the current appropriations law entered into effect and there have been 19 government shutdowns.

Thats also known as one every 26 months.

As far as I can tell, only three shutdowns before have been due to political positions and not actually spending: Bush Sr. raising taxes, Clinton keeping certain spending programs, and Obama with DACA and the ACA. Now its Trump...

And its probably about something that I’d deem racist or xenophobic (both?) or very, very stupid.

I might be foreign to the situation, I know your government still works (if perhaps behaving like the trial version of a computer program) and you’re safe, army is funded, police is funded, emergency services do work. I bet even DMVs work, well, marginally as always.

In the end I just feel like this will be more common all the time as it has transcended its original purpose of just forcing congress to show up the money (or the debt ceiling nowadays) and pay for their shit. This because Carter apparently didn’t have a grasp of how money works.

Which will hurt a lot of people, not rich people, not poor people, not coal workers or fast food workers.... Its gonna hit the people that make the country work. You guys pay taxes and these people are meant to have some of that money.

I don’t see Paul Ryan or Nancy Pelosi pinching pennies to keep their homes heated during the winter because they had to go on a forced furlough over very stupid political arguments. While shutdowns tend to be short, who knows. Your President is not a particularly charismatic or reasonable man and I fear that it will show by having a very stupid shutdown that might be a week or a month long... these days who knows? Everything is unpredictable now a single tweet, a sting of computer code so simple even I could understand it, will hurt hundreds of thousands of people.

Not all government shutdowns are dumb, I can see merit in each one of them save for Clinton’s and Trump’s, and my real concern is seeing that these are turning into political tools.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 10:33

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But using a shutdown as a political tool, geez, it seems to me like something that will become more and more common with time

Nah, I rather think we’re reaching a low point, and it’ll eventually get better. The Boomers are just having a long drawn out temper tantrum over their waning influence.

AkursedX > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 10:37

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I’m an ‘essential’ federal employee so I get to work for free* in these shutdowns. Oh well. As long as it doesn’t carry on longer than a month, I’ll be fine as I have enough cash reserves to pay my bills.

* Note: I will be paid eventually for my work, even the inevitable overtime (yeah, overtime still happens during shutdown time). The part that has always kinda blown to me is that all the non-essential personnel will get their back-pay too. So they basically get a paid vacation while I still have to work (1st world problems), but whatever, it’s what I signed up to do and I have always shown up through the shutdowns I have worked through previously.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 01/20/2018 at 10:41

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Boomers can suck, I agree.

But I think that Trump is as much a result of “White economic anxiety” and some boomers (maybe most) than he is a result of the internet being a breeding ground of assholes because we never really need to have our reality checked across a screen.

I think we’re becoming more divided and rather than coming to terms with it we’re rejoicing in being like this.

smobgirl > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 10:44

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I’m not a government employee, and I do have to work (and will get paid for it). But a big chunk of my job is compiling government data (no longer available) to submit reports to banks that will eventually be handed over to the government (no longer functioning) so my life is going to be a headache until the backlog from this bullshit eventually goes away.

Spanfeller is a twat > AkursedX 01/20/2018 at 10:45

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That’s the comment of a person with a great sense of responsibility, I commend you.

But I don’t think that many employees can afford having cash reserves shamefully... I know it is what you signed for but it doesn’t make it right!

Spanfeller is a twat > smobgirl 01/20/2018 at 10:50

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And isn’t it just dandy that its over a wall whose security effects will be thwarted by this thing called... the international commercial aviation?

PatBateman > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 10:59

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For the record, Trump isn’t shutting down the government; the Senate Democrats are doing it over something that has nothing to do with the budget.

Spanfeller is a twat > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 11:03

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Yes, democrats called it. But it doesn’t strip 45 of responsibility because he had already agreed to very simple compromises.

Having more than 50% of congress doesn’t mean you can disagree so much with the remaining part!

Baskingshark > AkursedX 01/20/2018 at 11:05

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My wife is a DoD Civilian and considered non essential, at least that was the case last time. She has since switched roles but I would imagine she would get furloughed again.

It was such a disaster politically last time so I am surprised it has gotten this far.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:06

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Counterpoint: it’s still funny

/born during Carter

//this is normal

Wheelerguy > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:07

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Same shit here in the Philippines. Changing the constitution turned into a weapon against anyone who stands against the current rule. We can’t fucking pay them more than their cronies, because we got no money, only a voice. Now they’re blasting excrement on Rappler. And guess what? Their supporters fucking love it. Retribution must feel so good...Forgive me, Lord, I wanna burn them all...

But no. No revolution. Not yet. No reason to prove them right. They want us to act beyond protesting. That, I fell, is when they’ll make their move.

Federalism can go suck it. The House of Representatives (inaccurate to a degree) can suck it. The INC can suck it. Our president can fucking suck it.

PatBateman > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:09

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I’m a moderate, and personally think that the best kind of legislation is the ones that neither party is happy with. That being said, I’d prefer a budget being held up by negotiations about budget items and not non-budget items.

If this were a company board holding up spending because of a non-spending issue, the shareholders would attack the board members, not the CEO. Does that make sense?

Spanfeller is a twat > Wheelerguy 01/20/2018 at 11:09

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My president and congress passed a bill recently that grants the army civil protection responsibility.

Oh golly is it being sued to hell and back!

Spanfeller is a twat > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 11:15

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Yeah but Trump as CEO of the US has a lot more leverage than a normal CEO and a lot more board-like responsibilities. Trump could’ve agreed and that basically gives the Republican’s agreement to keep the govt working.

I agree that the best choice in politics tends to be compromise, somethings are out of bounds, but most things are just negotiable. In my opinion political parties can go fuck themselves, red blue, green, who cares they all suck!

smobgirl > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:16

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I mean, yes, but after months of Scott Pruitt and Ben Carson my eyes are already stuck like this 

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often 01/20/2018 at 11:17

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Yeah but Carter sucked.

Spanfeller is a twat > smobgirl 01/20/2018 at 11:22

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Yeah, they made me feel very angry.

So angry that I asked my government not to send me to the US so that I can take crime, drugs, and somehow rapists over there.

SmugAardvark > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:22

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To me, this is the fault of both democrats and republicans, and is further proof that our current two-party system is effectively broken. Both sides are too tied to their own ideals to work together towards any sort of reasonable compromise. It’s become more important to toe the party line than to stand for the benefit of the American people.

And at this point it has become more of a blame game than a push to resolve the issue, which is asinine and serves no real purpose. It’s incredibly frustrating.

PatBateman > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:23

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Trump doesn’t have anything more than the power of persuasion over Senate Rs. Two completely different branches of the government. And honestly, even Senate Rs don’t like him much. He wasn’t their favorite pick for Pres, and he still isn’t.

facw > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 11:26

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It’s a bit rich to blame the Senate Democrats when the Republicans couldn’t even get their own party to vote for this bill. The Democrats might have blocked it even if the Republicans had had the votes, but it never came to that.

Spanfeller is a twat > SmugAardvark 01/20/2018 at 11:28

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I agree.

If Meade wins here in Mexico we’re gonna effectively turn into a two party country (pri-pan) and mrn with an few minority parties with diminishing influence.

None of them want to admit it.

Spanfeller is a twat > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 11:30

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My understanding is that he’s the one that stalled negociations.

Many of the functions of the executive branch are read between the lines, it’s like the nuclear football. Sure... The president can send a strick, but only congress can declare war! Isn’t it virtually the same?

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 11:34

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Great guy, terrible president.

Unlike the current terrible/terrible guy.

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often 01/20/2018 at 11:39

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Oh horrible!

He’s (Carter) the kind of person that sends congratulations cookies but forgets that cookies need to be baked so instead gives you a pile of Pillsburry cookie dough.

And you will notice because that shit is weird.

About the current. Yes.

jimz > Wheelerguy 01/20/2018 at 12:01

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unsurprising given how similar the Philippine government is to ours. thankfully our constitution is deliberately hard to change/amend for a reason; Trump can talk like he’s Duterte all he wants, he doesn’t have the power to act on it.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 12:16

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When you control both sides of legislation *and* the White House, yet can’t pass a budget, maybe you aren’t really an expert at the “art of the deal”, nor a “stable genius”. They didn’t think there’d be a price to pay for the tax con nor the regressive social conservatism they are putting back in the fold?

Worst regime ever.

fintail > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 12:19

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Yeah, the Rs controlling both sides yet being unable to offer any real negotiation, along with Trumputin doing nothing bit tweeting and gloating, has nothing to do with it. Did they not expect revenge for the tax con?

And then we have these fucktards getting into the abortion issue again, to distract from their other failings. Worst regime ever.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 12:21

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Yup.

He’s a nightmare.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 12:22

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I think Trump is the worst boomer stereotypes rolled into one deplorable persona. Entitled, greedy, enabled by parental largesse, no self-awareness,and hypocritical.

E92M3 > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 12:31

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It’s a stupid tactic. You want to furlough government employees pay? start at the top down! Starting with “The House”. I wouldn’t mind if they cut some military spending, but lets not punish those making $40k a year, who risk their lives for us.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 12:38

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well, its not only Boomers that voted for Trump, that’s the issue.

not necessarily with political affiliation because Bernie Sanders fans are similarly crazy (If, at least to my perspective, Bernie isn’t insane, just made look that way). Its the internet and its wrath.

I don’t know what’s gonna happen here come July, I am really, really worried that we elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador because he’s an idiot, a farce, a corrupt imbecile, and a populist showman.

As much as I hate the other parties, PRI and PAN, their corrupted governments at least ends most times in something relatively good for their populous. The only good thing amlo did for Mexico City was raising the building heights in Polanco so that it developed into a tightly packed urban core, even then he failed because those are still limited....

Oh why do I work in the construction business... it just ends up highlighting how dumb our governors are.

Spanfeller is a twat > E92M3 01/20/2018 at 12:40

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Exactly!

I wanna see Paul Ryan having to cancel his gym membership everytime they pull out a govt shutdown.

Hold up.

Nick Has an Exocet > fintail 01/20/2018 at 12:43

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Hate to be that guy, but the same was also true under Obama and there was still a shutdown.

fintail > Nick Has an Exocet 01/20/2018 at 12:53

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Not sure if this is apples to apples, however.

The Dems definitely have a role in this, but the Repubs playing victim in this is disingenuous if not simply dishonest. They should have expected a fight, and if the conman in chief is such a great negotiator, he should have had a plan.

Of course, these people want to deconstruct the government anyway (aside from the parts that line their own dirty fortunes), so this might be intentional.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 12:58

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But a hell of a lot of them did. In my family tree anyway, the loud members of the base are all of a certain demographic. Most of them have been pretty quiet lately - with the regression into social conservatism, I think they have buyer’s remorse, or maybe they aren’t tired of winning yet.

Exit polls are also funny - I question their accuracy. And I agree about Bernie fans - they have a role in this. Don’t get me wrong, I find Clinton to be distasteful and of questionable ethics, but compared to this shitshow, she’s an Eisenhower.

“an idiot, a farce, a corrupt imbecile, and a populist showman”

Sounds familiar. I am waiting for Canada to elect one, too - they tend to lag behind the US by 5-10 years when it comes to political movements. 

In the US, where housing-related construction is very coddled by public policy and federal aid, many people in the industry are conservatives. The same people who decry big government and bloated budgets gain their meal tickets from said budgets.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 13:03

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Here each borough has a so called “Plan parcial” that is sent to the secretary of urban development of Mexico City and they check if it makes sense. if theres enough transit routes, emergency services, topographic conditions, and other stuff for a large building, and if it fits the area. its every ten years... I think.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 13:04

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I don’t really think that DACA needs to end, I feel for those people, but using people who are here illegally to punish the rest of us? Yeah, that’s not right. For either side. I work for the government. I don’t know what Monday will be like. I don’t know if I’ll still get paid next week. I am not happy about this.

Nick Has an Exocet > fintail 01/20/2018 at 13:04

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It is entirely apples to apples and this is the exact reason I refuse to fall in line with either of these god forsaken parties. They’re both chalk full of narcissistic NIMBY’s that are bent on making someone else hurt because it feels good for them. A few years ago the democrats were screaming about how horrible a government shutdown would be and how it’s the worst thing you could let happen to America. And they’re completely fine justifying it themselves. “Do as I say, not as I do.” - the true mantra of America’s politicians.

Spanfeller is a twat > random001 01/20/2018 at 13:07

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DACA recipients have become kidnapped politically by both parties.

I think its a real shame, man. what a fucking mess.

It’d just be the icing on the cake if trump found himself in a golf course this weekend.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 13:10

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Is this secretary beholden to any special parties or bribes?

Even in a progressive area like Seattle, I am amazed at some of the stuff that gains approval.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 13:10

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So true. I don’t want anyone to get screwed, but to screw everyone for political shits? Bullshit.

fintail > Nick Has an Exocet 01/20/2018 at 13:13

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Of course, the dems weren’t presided over by a stable genius expert dealmaker, and didn’t just force through an idiotic tax plan without expecting repercussions.

I’ll definitely agree with that last part. No matter who you choose, you lose - with one party you get smug condescension and promises of progress with few rewards, the other, a regressive walk back to social conservatism and repeated trickle down lies.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 13:28

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Its a tough question to answer. Generally the secretary is just very conservative with urban planning because they know that if the plan partial de polanco says you can build a maximum of five stories or 18m high with a limited size last floor, architects and builders will build a 25m tall building with 6 stories, a roof garden, and unregistered balconies. The issue with being conservative and also having low level corruption is that some areas are drastically underserved.

It is a huge issue because everyone got involved in it, a journalist that lives in Polanco tried to blackmail a construction boss because he lost a good amount of view due to a massive building. Then it became a popular issue because the tenants in Polanco don’t like the density of the area (it looked like a suburb 20 years ago) and since they are S O F A N C Y they never use public transportation, they stalled a project to build a BRT all the way to Santa Fe, a BRT that meant I’d be able to go to college using only the Metro and the BRT, instead I have sit in traffic listening to NPR on the ring road.

Anyway....

Corruption tends to stem in the lower echelons of government in this particular field, in the way of the local regulators that won’t mess with you if you let them have some money. Whether the company I work for does this or not, I do not know. I suppose bribes aren’t accounted for in the general ledger. I do know that they take a lot of precautions to keep the regulators away, they only do noise intensive tasks during midday, the work permit and union permit are prominently displayed, they have their own ambulance on site, all the workers have the right equipment and their hours are counted precisely so they never overwork.

Additionally, and I think this is cute, Whenever they are pouring concrete from the street they pay for the parking meter spaces they use.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 13:39

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This only affects federal workers and contractors, closes parks that are federally owned, etc. It could affect the states eventually if it ran long enough that they didn’t get their money from the federal government, but that’s unlikely. It would also likely delay tax refunds that you should be able to file for very soon (you need paperwork, which is required to be sent by 01/31). The direct contact average people have with the federal government is quite limited: IRS (basically everyone), parks/land (surprisingly few can actually afford to visit them), some law enforcement, TSA, and passports (complicated, but mostly affects the upper middle class and above, so about 10–15% of the population, although the chances they need them renewed/issued during a shutdown is slim).

The whole thing is an extortion racket because the things they shut down are things that affect most people, not the parts we generally don’t care about, although I feel for those doing something deemed “essential”. Many pet programs that could be shuttered somehow end up marked essential even when they seem expendable. It’s stupid.

PatBateman > facw 01/20/2018 at 13:46

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I’ll clarify: All the Senate Democrats and one or two Senate Republicans. Better?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Nick Has an Exocet 01/20/2018 at 13:46

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Entirely orchestrated by Ted fucking Cruz because the rCons were mad about the Affordable Care Act. Not even close to the same as this situation.

facw > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 13:48

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Five Republicans voted against it.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 14:02

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As a compliance auditor and ex-fraud analyst, I can assume the bribes are indeed kept off the books, or are accounted for with just a little creativity :)

I think here, most things are rubber stamped so long as a project passes height restrictions and environmental impact distractions.

100 unit building with 20 parking spaces in an area with tight street parking? Go for it. 50 unit subdivision exiting to a narrow unimproved road? Fine. You need to close sidewalks and streets for a year to build condos for offshore money launderers? Go ahead. Want to build a parking garage with no setbacks at the exit in an area with pedestrian traffic? Why not? Gigantic tacky 3 story mcmodern/mcmansion built out to the lot line in a neighborhood of well-spaced 1 story postwar bungalows? Sounds great.

PatBateman > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 14:37

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He is part of the negotiations, but only from a “I’ll sign it if...” stance. I’ll be the first to blame the President if he doesn’t sign a budget resolution, but until then, it’s in the Senate’s hands.

And if we’re being honest here (which we all should be), it bugs me that Republican citizens talk about “8 years of war under Obama”. We’re not in a declared war with anyone, and haven’t been for years. The President can authorize military action, but there are limitations. Words have definitions; any other use of the word, in the applicable sense, is bologna.  

PatBateman > fintail 01/20/2018 at 14:40

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They don’t have 60 votes in the Senate to pass a budget. Like I said, a budget debate should be about the budget, not about non-budget items.

And I agree with you on the abortion issue. It’s already Supreme Court-judged law. Shut up about it.

PatBateman > facw 01/20/2018 at 14:40

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Six if you count McCain’s non-vote (which is understandable considering his illness).

And really, the five R “No” votes are mainly because they want something more drastic. However, they’ll fall in line if there are five other D “Yes” votes.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 14:49

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I think that urban planning is fascinating. Here in Mexico they just removed the parking space requirements and started loitering the city with the rental bycicles... Its effective: a lot of people commute using bycicle.

The issue comes down to the fact that no one likes public transportation unless it has metro stamped on it or metrobus stamped on it, areas without these transportation services were also given permission to develop without parking lots... Which is dumb.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 15:36

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I think it is fascinating too - oftentimes, for the train wreck which results from inept predictions or simply not caring.

Rental bike placement is a thing here, too, which is sometimes amusing - I will see them placed in very affluent neighborhoods, where nobody commutes other than via private car. Whoever is in charge might not understand local areas. Bicycles are common in Seattle proper, but you are playing Russian roulette if you use one for commuting in the suburbs - casualties and fatalities are too common.

This area is just developing working metro now, maybe 40 years after it should have started. We also have the parking lot issue. You can imagine the expense, the NIMBYism, and the overall slowness. Combine that with those who preach it often unwilling to give up their own cars, and it can be difficult.

fintail > PatBateman 01/20/2018 at 15:38

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But do they really think human nature works that way? As you say, should. Shouldn’t a self-titled expert deal-maker be able to work something out? And shouldn’t a dead-eyed zombie of a press secretary not be tweeting about it in such a flamboyant way that it screams overcompensating?

Abortion will be a distraction from the inability of stable genius to iron this out. Then again, as the crypto-fascist branch of his base wants deconstruction, this might not be accidental.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 16:18

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I mean, they do that here too,look at this map:

The rental bikes are really only around parts o the urban core. its funny because they evade the rich area of Jardines del Pedregal, Santa Fe, Las Lomas, and Bosques de Las lomas. They also evade the extremely poor areas and areas without the density to actually use them.

Its a great program and its quite useful! I just wished they had a bit more metro infrastructure.

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 16:40

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One good thing that came out of a government shutdown, was some of the most fun I had while in the military.

There was a government shutdown while I was in basic. So when it came time to do the final field exercise. There was a shortage of blank rounds. So the first night of it, a nearby unit decided to “attack” us and tried to steal our stockpile of ammo.

We stopped them from doing that and in retaliation we drained their water tank and stole some of their MREs and all of their machine guns. We lined them all up and a drill sergeant when down the line firing off all of the ammo in them.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 17:01

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Are the bikes in areas that already have transit, or are easily walkable?

Last weekend, I saw two bikes marooned in an area called Evergreen Point, an area of Medina, which is a neighborhood-town home to many titans of industry, including Bill Gates. I sincerely doubt anyone who lives there is going to take a rented bike to work or the store, and leave the Range Rover Autobiography or Bentayga at home. If the bikes were placed near arterial roads that lead from housing developments to employment centers, it would make sense - although those places might have transit already.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 17:03

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The areas are incredibly dense and have easy access to transit and walking.

I’d use the bike for say... the last mile or so of my metro commute rather than walking if I could.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 17:06

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San Pedro, a very wealthy metropolitan area of Monterrey, had a concept of introducing a congestion charge and making park and ride parking lots at the many arteries, then having a BRT or a normal bus ride around.

Mexico City’s downtown supposedly has a congestion zone, but I don’t think it applies unless theres an ecological emergency.

facw > AkursedX 01/20/2018 at 17:45

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If we keep having these shutdowns, I’m pretty sure at some point, furloughed workers will not be paid. I don’t believe there’s anything that says they have to be, it’s just that if you don’t, you alienate talented workers. However the Republican orthodoxy is that government (except maybe the military) is bad, so they might well be happy to see workers go someplace where their pay is more stable. I think even in that case though, they’d still be compelled to pay the people who are actually working.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 18:03

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No congestion charges or zones here yet, although I am sure some local greenies would love it (while exempting their own cars, of course). As you know, it is a thing in Europe, but in European cities, transit is usually so developed that a car is more of a liability than a convenience.

My commute is only about 4 miles each way, but the bus can take so long, not to mention walking to the stop in the constant rain, that private car still works best for me - I am paying insurance either way, and fuel costs are minor.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 01/20/2018 at 18:11

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I’d like to see the park and ride stations, or at least a good balance. I’m certain that I’d be okay taking the metro or brt to university (but its only a bus, and those aren’t very safe) most days of the week and have the car for roadtrips o on days when I stay until late in college

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 01/20/2018 at 19:17

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When I was a student, I was able to walk to school, and only used the car for weekends and chores. I was in a college town and not a potentially dangerous city, however.

Park and ride is definitely a needed solution in many areas, it is big in Europe too.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > SmugAardvark 01/20/2018 at 21:40

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That’s one thing I don’t get about politics. Even up here in Canada, it seems like things have been more polarized lately. It’s almost like we need a “Let’s be reasonable party” that sits in the middle, or allows all issues to go to plebiscite, and let the people decide.